I believe Moeller technique help a lot for dynamics on hi hat, do you know this technique ?
Hi all
I've been taking a few classes with a great danish teacher lately. This week he wanted to check out how I was able to groove - and there was some serious Porcaro grooves in between.
He had a few comments, and one of them was regarding my hihat dynamics. It seems that I generally accentuate the notes of my snare and bass drum (meaning the fourths in a standard rock-beat), and not the 8ths in between.
I've been wondering about this but I realise that this is something I really can't seem to figure out.
It's my believe that the stiff and equally accented 8ths on the hihat doesn't work out well in most situations, but what approach should then be made? Do you guys have any thoughs on hihat dynamics in general?
I know Jeff Porcaro was really great at it, and I have his dvd where he discusses it too, but I don't know how to work on this.
I'll talk to my teacher about this again, but it would be great if you guys would share your experiences on the subject.
Best regards, Jonas
I believe Moeller technique help a lot for dynamics on hi hat, do you know this technique ?
Being able to control your hi-hat dynamics will go a long way in your being able to create different feelings and moods from a groove. It may help to just focus on your hands at first, and then perhaps only your hi-hat and bass drum.
Playing the hi-hat with equal dynamics (no accents) will make pattern feel entirely different from accenting on all quarter notes or on the eighth notes in between.
Thanks for your posts guys!
donu:> I know the Moeller tehcnique from Dave Weckl's How to develop technique - don't know if there's more to it than that?
dsop:> Yearh, I'm aware of the responsibilities of the hihat-pattern, but I would like some thoughs on coming up with patterns for different songs instead of my just doing RrRrRrRr, rRrRrRrR, rrrrrrrr etc. Not that they'er not great for a lot of things, but there seem to be some unknown area for me to go into here.
Okay, I guess it came out a little wrong at first. It's not that I'm not doing any dynamics on the hihat, but I would like to hear what approach you guys take on hihat dynamics in general. Is the accenting fourths on backbeat-heavy stuff completely out of question as my teacher made it sound like? Do you guys play "complex", varying patterns like Porcaro sometimes would?
Thanks!
Jonas
Rather than already looking at different accenting patterns, take a step back and consider a more basic approach. For example:
When playing a simple groove, use different parts of your stick to hit the hi-hat and you will be able to create a variety of different sounds i.e. using either the tip or the "neck" or "shoulder", whatever you call it.
Also: Consider the more frequent use of hi-hat openings. That could add some dynamics to your playing, if you haven't already looked into it. I don't really know how advanced you are, so this might not apply.
Lastly, I would recommend listening to some Tony Williams records or people like Stewart Copeland (if you want something a little more recent). This is a huge topic so keep exploring. Hope that helps.
Listening... listening to what other drummers are doing. Doing what the music calls for, that is what you do.
Simple as that [img]wink.gif[/img]
<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ October 30, 2005 07:53 PM: Message edited by: matricks ]</font>
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">It really depends on the music and the moment. Work on the variations and technique and then let the music and your intuition dictate what to play.Originally posted by Jonas Delfs:
I would like to hear what approach you guys take on hihat dynamics in general.
Playing the hi-hat with a "lope" (i.e. a pattern where some notes are accented and others are somewhat ghosted) generally gives the groove a more sophisticated feel, IMO. Jeff talks about his in his video (and was obviously a master of the hi-hat in every way). Both Garibaldi and Weckl have been saying the same for years...that playing with a constant dynamic can give the time a stiff, amateurish feel. I saw Garibaldi in a clinic about 10 years ago, and he really frowned upon the idea of playing the hi-hat at a constant dynamic. Actually, he pretty much frowned upon everything, but I digress...
The accent does not necessarily need to be on the quarter note--it can be on the offbeat as well (check out Jeff's playing on Steely Dan's "FM" or Michael McDonald's "No Such Luck" for starters). While I don't think there's a magic formula, I think the keys to the hi-hat are experimenting with the "lope" and also the pattern itself ("1e+a", "1e+", "1+a", etc.) to find what best fits the music, as Jeff describes in his video.
Case in point: one of my favorite grooves ever involves a constant dynamic on the hi-hat. It's the outro of "Just the Two of Us." Gadd gradually builds the intensity, but he's just wailing very plain 8ths on the hat, grooving his ass off!
Phil Collins is also very good at wailing quarters on the hi-hat, and using a Moeller-style technique to get ghosted off-beat 8ths ("Against All Odds," for example).
BTW, "No Such Luck" is an excellent, yet overlooked tune on that album that features some absolutely brilliant, bad-ass playing by Jeff!
There's nothing wrong with accenting 1/4 notes on hi-hat with kick and snare. Was he saying that's all you do and you should have some variety?
I'm with Matricks. The music will tell you what to play.
An excellent way to work on dynamics on the hi-hat is to play along to some "smooth jazz" 80-88 bpm sixteenth notes on the hi-hat. There's a couple Earth Wind and Fire tunes that come to mind. "That's the Way of the World" and "Can't Hide Love". Better yet: "What you won't do for Love" by Bobby CAldwell. Get that 1/16 note feel happening and your hi-hat dynamics will take a major leap IMO. That groove is all about the hi-hat.
I would play along to some Bob Marley too. Very hi-hat oriented. Work on your "One Drop".
Try playing just hi-hat along to some different music and change your accents/patterns and see how it changes the feel. Listen to other drummers and their approach.
How long have you been playing and what styles of music do you play?
cjb has some very good ideas. Yes, focus on just some hi hat things and use the whole stick, tip shoulder, shank and play on all parts of the top cymbal as well (middle, edge, cup etc.). Also do some various open and closed things and use a variety of degrees of open cymbals. And don't forget to open on a downbeat. We get very hooked on opening on the upbeat that we forget the other possibilities. Also play some 8th or 16th rhythms and drop in a closed foot here and there as another timbral change. Add all this together and you have a basic hi hat trick bag to use when practicing other coordination things with the kick and snare.
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